I wouldn't want to give anyone the idea that I have a down on seller's on ebay because I don't. And here is a post about the downside to selling prints on the site. I hasten to add the proof above, The Vitava at Prague (1928), a colour woodcut by John Platt, was not for sale on ebay. This one was sold by the well-known Oxfordshire dealer, Elizabeth Harvey Lee, to HM Government in 1995 and it now hangs on the walls of our embassy in Prague. The proof that was sold last week on ebay is the one you see below.
I think we can take it as given that buyers for the British Government collection do not go looking for bargains on ebay. They will go to dealers like Lee for unframed prints in very good condition and expect to pay her much higher prices. This in itself must be pretty galling for the recent seller, stiveshouseart, (and I hope they don't mind me using their image). The seller put the print in at the reasonable starting bid of £60. It sold for the bargain price of only £75. I must admit I was surprised - I certainly thought it would go higher and I expect stiveshouseart were pretty disappointed. Platt is a very good printmaker and it should have fetched more. So what happened?
As I have found out for myself, taking photos of subtle works on paper like this woodcut is by no means a simple thing to do. To start with, you would need the patience of Job and a very steady hand (and a good deal of luck) to get the image perfectly square. But when it comes to the tones of the work - they are almost impossible to reproduce. I assume the government image is the work of a professional and that the colours are close to the original - but I don't know. By comparison, the ebay image is too green and the distortion is offputting. I also know from experience that any little creases or defects on japan of the kind you can see bottom right are certainly exaggerated by the camera. But their photo also gives some very important information: it shows the deckle edge on the right, which lets us know the margins are the ones that Platt intended. (Artists tened to leave the deckle edge margin deeper).
To sell a work, the image needs to be good. I remember Clive buying his Source of the Clitumnus by William Giles and saying afterwards it was the ropey photograph that gave him a bargain buy. The one here is better but I think you can see the difficulties. This wasn't a specialist print dealer; it was someone who wanted to sell and was rather unlucky. Whoever bought it probably knew the full impact of Platt's image - and no amount of sales talk is going to get that over. As I've said earlier this week, I don't admire the kind of seller who expects the buyer to take all the risks by putting a print in at an inflated starting price. I learned the ropes at Arthur Johnson's auction house down at the cattle market in Nottingham. It was known as a place where the trade would place gear they couldn't shift elsewhere. Ebay can be like that, too.
Somewhat off-topic, so apologies, but it's something I've been wondering for a few days now. I was wondering whether there are any contemporary printmakers you feel are doing particularly good work? I think there are some very good people at work right now (particularly in America and Japan), though I find that I buy contemporary work relatively infrequently now because it tends not to be much cheaper than many antique(ish) prints and often has a less proven resale record to give me hope that the work will hold its value.
ReplyDeleteI should note that I don't buy primarily for investment. But if I've got a choice between an earlier printmaker with an established record of medium-long term value and somebody whose work may not survive the next decade, I tend to steer toward the former, given a limited budget.
ReplyDeleteCharles,
ReplyDeleteI think you are definitely right about the importance of good quality photos if you want to sell on ebay. As a matter of fact, I know the problem because my camera is absolutely useless. Having said that, I saw the Platt, and I didn't go for it simply because I don't like it. I don't think it isd one of his best works.
I feel the same about modern / older prints as Anthony. But maybe that is because my taste is more conservative. I can't really relate to many of the modern printmakers' works that I see on the internet, to be honest. In my opinion, many of their works don't have soul, which is ultimately what I'm looking for. Probably my grandma's genes...:-)
Klaus
Anthony, I sometimes ask myself the same question but the field is so big, I hard;ly know where to start. The things I have tend to be small and by established artists but never cost me much. Katsunori Hamanishi remains affordable. I have people as diverse as Glynn Boyd Harte, David Gentleman (a £5 bargain for a wood-engraving), Roman Sustov from Belarus, Yvonne Skargon. Johnathan Gibbs is stylish.But I just don't keep up with things that much because I still find the earlier C20th prints the best buys (despite what I've said recently).
ReplyDeleteCharles
Klaus, the Platt wasn't typical of his earlier style and he may have been shifting ground. He got a new lease of life when he stopped depending on the keyblock (I am posting on that period of his life at the weekend). It was a good buy for someone but as you say, it didn't appeal that much.
ReplyDeleteI think in fact what we all tend to miss is the craft element that was so common in the twenties, especially amongst the colour woodcutters. It gives them a feel alot of contmemporary work doesn't have. But starting towards the top, Lucienn Freud's etchings are very good but possibly not to your grandma's taste (or pocket). But then I think your gran is rather skittish and her taste has begun to change.
Hamanishi is a great printmaker. Funnily enough, I think some of the best work going on today is in mezzotint (Carol Wax, Peter Jogo, Art Werger, Frederick Mershimer).
ReplyDeletePerhaps my favourite conremporary printmaker is Ray Morimura, but his work is simply too expensive for me to justify purchasing, by and large.
Anthony, this looks like a reading list.
ReplyDeleteMezzotint can achieve the kind of precision that so many artists seems to like but also provides a tremendous range of tones. I love the C17th portrait mezzotints but feel I shouldn't go down that road.
I sometimes thinking about posting on Hamanishi. I think I shall.
Charles
Wow, what a fascinating posting and the comments are also part of a conversation that is very interesting. I am in agreement with Klaus, Platt was such a master of the print, and that is his least appealing work. I have seen it in person, and I think one of the problems is, it's relatively lifeless and flat, especially compared to his other stunning works that are truly British and celebrate Britain. There is a love there that is absolutely tangible. However, having said that, the price was shocking. It is the amateurish aspect of Ebay where people slap things on hoping for a quick turn around, and often since they get them at car boot sales, or attics they don't care about the money because they only paid pittance in the first place.
ReplyDeleteThe Scottish seller of my Giles was of course pissed off at the price she got. She knew it was worth much much more since it was double signed and had his original notes on the back regarding the colours and mixture to be used. However, she had done such a shoddy job of photographing and listing it (another issue) that virtually the only way it could be found was by typing in William Giles.
I also concur with Charles Anthony and think David Gentleman is a super star. I love his works and they are usually aesthetically stunning. I would also add Micah Schwaberow whose works are obsessively perfect. He studied at the studio of Toshi Yoshida and he learned all about traditional Japanese woodblock printing methods and it shows. His works are stunning, and not commonly found but worth buying when they come up. I am also a fan of Patrick Procktor and Valerie Thornton.
Once again Charles a provocative and interesting posting.
It doesn't matter how hard you try, hilltop palaces in central Europe are essentially duff subjects. And here Platt took the tourist view. I think your point about his English (and Cornish) subjects from rugby to Matlock to apple-picking is well-made. They come across. He was playing the plein air marine artist on this one but fails where Kirkpatrick almost always succeeds. She could turn a cliche like gondolas on the Lagoon into a tour-de-force, so what went wrong here? And will the diplomats and industrialists spare it a second glance? It is rather academic. It's the problem with being a lifelong teacher.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair to Anthony, I think he was asking about the kind of contemporary artists that don't always interest readers of this blog, like Klaus. My view is they get plenty of exposure anyway on gallery websites and are, by and large, too pricey for my pocket.
David Gentleman has always been on my to-do list. The proof I bought just didn't sell because it wasn't signed even though his wood-engravings are just very rare. He is ne plus ultra, as you say. I also have photos of the Gentleman home and studio, all in browns and blacks. I must dig them out.
Incidentally, I was trying to tone down the provocation on this one. Obviously, must try harder.
I think this concludes my boats-and-artists spree.
Charles
Re. Micah Schwaberow, I know his work, though I don't own any pieces. You're absolutely right, he's v. highly regarded. It's often said that casual observers sometimes mistake his block prints for watercolours at first examination and you can see why that would be. His work's also quite inexpensive, though the market is mostly in the USA, hence the fact that you're unlikely to stumble across his work over here (the fact that there seems to be very little market for contemporary Japanese or Anglo-American-Japanese prints in the UK is something I'm forever whining about).
ReplyDeleteHis works do come up on Ebay Anthony, and when they do, the best suggestion is to buy. His works have increased astonishingly just in the past several years. I used to be able to pick his prints up for the equivalent of forty pounds. Not bad.
ReplyDeleteClive
I'm surprised that the Platt print I purchased is the subject of an online discussion, even before it has reached my hands. As a student of color woodblock prints I have so much respect for John Platt's technical abilities that the image almost seems superfluous. I only have one other, Pilchard Boats, Cornwall, and although I agree his English subjects are very desirable, I found Vitava at Prague irresistible at that price. Not as good as finding an early Allen Seaby for $50.00 USD (my very first eBay purchase), but it will do. I recently heard a talk by Micah Schwaberow and have been much impressed by his work, which, by his own admission turn out to be happy accidents, tempered by his discipline as an artist.
ReplyDeletePaul
Paul, you shouldn't really be surprised because Clive at Art & the Aesthete ran a popular post he called 'To have and to hang' where forthcoming items on ebay used to be discussed - as I'm sure you must know. To some extent, 'Tales from ebay' is only its naughty little brother.
ReplyDeleteSo many of us scour ebay, it would be daft not to acknowledge the fact. And 'Tales from ebay' has turned out to be generally popular - though, sorry to say, not with everyone.
Anyway, congratulations on your bargain. As you can see, we all thought it was a good buy. We just hope you are not going to turn your collecting attention elsewhere, that's all.
Charles
I should also add that Platt's rugby print 'The scrum' shows the Scotland team playing either Wales or England (I think the red jerseys could have been worn by either team) so talk of English imagery might be provocative in itself - and goodness knows, there has been provocation enough as it is. I think I might even have to put 'Tales from ebay' into prematuire retirement.
ReplyDeleteCharles
I think your investment in the underpriced Platt Paul, is the real story. It was a bargain, and I rate Platt as a master of the woodblock, and so does history. You have to admit though, it's not the most appealing and compared to the Cornish images, it is, as Charles would say, duff stuff. I think the discussion is interesting, and the fact that you have stumbled upon out little international conversation is kind of exciting. I am curious Paul, as a the buyer, how do you rate the print? I am interested to hear your opinion especially since you clearly know your stuff and your artists.
ReplyDeleteClive
Clive, I will let you know my overall impression when I receive the print. Charles, I appreciate your posts because it helps me make the case to my spouse that these prints are a good investment (although I rarely buy for investment, but rather have a great appreciation of the art). My real collection is Allen Seaby, I think at last count I have 15, which, as far as I can tell, is about a fifth of his total output. He was never the great printer that Platt was, but his quality of line is very Japanese and that economy of line captures what I like best about Japanese prints. Platt is like the Yoshidas in complexity, and in my opinion his prints were technical masterpieces. Funny that late in his career he chose to simplify, whatever the reason.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of poorly marketed items on eBay, several years ago I bid on a set of blocks on eBay, the pictures were poor, and as there was no key block was very difficult to identify online. I took a chance and won the bid at 25.00 USD, thinking the blocks would be interesting to study. As soon as I unpacked them I realized they were the color blocks for Frank Morley Fletcher's 1898 print Floodgates. I assume that the key block had been cancelled and possibly destroyed, but the five surviving cherry blocks are a wonderful study and real insight into his working method. Two months later a copy of the print became available on eBay, and unfortunately I had to pay top dollar to acquire it. Win some, lose some.
Paul
Well I have to say, it clearly went to a good home Paul, and the FMF make me bloody green with envy, and recall a time when I flinched on buying a set of Maragret Preston blocks that were given as a door prize in 1932. They were 50 USD and I was so gobsmacked I thought there must be something wrong with them, only to discover them later in a museum.
ReplyDeleteYour Platt Seaby comparison is interesting and you have some insight into it which is interesting. I think Charles should be asking for a Seaby appraisal by you, or at the very least scans of your Seabys and the FMF blocks
I am glad the Platt has gone to a collector.
Clive
Clive, you should have a look at Paul's site on Flickr.(He posts as typesticker.) I think quite a few of the Seabies are there. His knowledge of FMF is also impressive but it has taken quite a time to coax him out of his lair!
ReplyDeleteCharles
And Paul, if I had realised 'Modern Printmakers' was quite so effective, I would have made sure that Clive's accountant also read the blog. Conversely, it is only writing the damned thing that stops me bidding away on ebay. Well, that, and another trip to Italy etc
ReplyDeleteCharles
I apologize ahead of time for my photos on Flickr. My camera takes a pretty detailed close-up, but fisheyes terribly at any distance. It's good enough to get the idea across for now (but I have my eye on a very nice Nikon). And oddly, good enough for some clown to lift images of some George Formby ephemera I posted, and turn them into postal cards sold cheaply on eBay. Geez, if you're that desperate.....
ReplyDeletePaul